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Welcome to the For the Love Podcast with Mejian Hatmaker. Today we'll discover everything you wanted to know about Anya Graham twos from Spiritual Director, Selena Hertz.

Hey everybody, Jen Hatmaker is here. Your host of The For the Love Podcast. Super happy to welcome you to the show today. You probably know this, but we are in a series called

The For the Love of the Anya Graham and it is so awesome. We're absolutely laughing at everybody's response to it. You guys are maniacs. You're listening to it and you're sharing it and you're listening to it twice and you're sending it to your friends and we're thrilled about it because that is literally how much we love it to we're obsessed, absolutely obsessed right now.

And today's episode you're going to love it. Today in the series, we probably have on the most altruistic number on the entire Anya Graham, which is the twos.

Tos are known as the helpers because they are generally the ones who just roll up their sleeves and get stuff done. They are amazing at being doers and helpers and selfless givers and they're incredible in their relationships and families.

The twos are just they make the world so so so lovely. And so joining us today to talk about this number is a two herself. I'm so happy to have on Selena Hertz today.

Selena is she's an author. She's a spiritual director. She's a yoga instructor. Very passionate about spirituality and contemplation and making the world just more lovely.

So in 2012, Selena and her husband, Chris, who by the way is the Anya Graham expert, we will hear in this series on the Anya Graham eight episode together, they found it an organization called gravity, which is the center for contemplative activism, which works to help restore and guide leaders who work in justice. They're just special people.

They are so so so special and today we get to unpack the two and you've heard me say this but I'm married to a two so I'm always paying deep attention to when this conversation is on the table and Felina you will hear you will find this is so gentle, so dear, so warm and so inviting and she's so honest today.

I mean, we're going to talk about the best parts of it to the shadow side of a two what the two is afraid of what he or she needs and wants what she has learned in her own work.

And I think the two's out there you're going to feel seen and heard today you're going to feel understood and for all of us who love it to married to a two work with a two parent a two.

This is incredibly incredibly instructive and I am thrilled to share my conversation with the absolutely wonderful Anya Graham to Felina hurts.

Felina, I am so happy to have you on the podcast. This is your first time on the show and that feels shocking to me. It's about time.

Well, it's a total honor to be invited. Thanks Jen. I appreciate it.

Okay, first of all, I have backfilled my listeners in a little bit about who you are and and what you do.

But I wonder if you could as it pertains to this particular episode walk us back just a little bit and tell us where you first heard about the Anya Graham.

When you first learned about it, when you decided I'd like to be a portion of my work even where you kind of go from a user to teacher.

Can you walk us through that process a little bit?

Sure. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So I think it was maybe my early 30s when I was first introduced to the Anya Graham.

My husband was meeting with a spiritual director at the time and he and his wife. They actually bought us the book, the basically the Bible of the Anya Graham, the Anya Graham Institute puts out.

And I had that diagram of the Anya Graham on the cover and I have been and I have a background and evangelical Christianity and we took one look at the cover of that and we were totally weirded out by it.

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