4.8 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 19 May 2025
⏱️ 67 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
In Episode 418 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas sits down with award-winning journalist Karen Hao to discuss Empire of AI — her inside account of how OpenAI evolved from an idealistic, safety-first nonprofit into one of the world’s most valuable private companies in its race to conquer the future.
This conversation takes you inside that transformation—from the heady idealism of OpenAI’s founding, through the billion-dollar Microsoft deal and the 2023 boardroom coup, to the unresolved questions that hang over Silicon Valley and Washington alike about the private concentration of power in the age of artificial intelligence and the nature of the world we are building.
Whether you’re an investor, a policymaker, or simply a concerned citizen trying to make sense of today’s headlines, this episode will equip you with the context you need to understand what’s really at stake in the race for AGI—and the levers we still have to steer it.
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Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas
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Episode Recorded on 05/12/2025
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
0:00.0 | What's up, everybody? My name is Demetri Gaffinus, and you're listening to Hidden Forces, |
0:06.2 | a podcast that inspires investors, entrepreneurs, and everyday citizens to challenge consensus |
0:13.0 | narratives, and learn how to think critically about the systems of power shaping our world. |
0:18.8 | My guest in this episode is Karen Howe, an award-winning journalist and the author |
0:23.6 | of Empire of AI, an important new book that tells the eye-opening account of arguably the most |
0:29.6 | fateful technological arms race in history. While the book tells the inside story of open AI, |
0:36.6 | it is at its heart a meditation on power that |
0:39.7 | reveals how an idealistic nonprofit devoted to the safe development of artificial intelligence |
0:45.0 | morphed into one of the most valuable private companies in the world. |
0:49.9 | Today's conversation takes you inside that transformation, from the heady idealism of Open |
0:55.3 | AI's founding, through the multi-billion-dollar Microsoft deal and the 2023 boardroom coup, to |
1:01.5 | the unresolved questions that hang over Silicon Valley and Washington alike about the private |
1:06.7 | accumulation of immense sources of power around the deployment of this technology and the |
1:11.6 | nature of the world we are building. Whether you're an investor, policymaker, or simply a concerned |
1:17.8 | citizen trying to make sense of the headlines, this episode will equip you with the context |
1:22.7 | you need to understand what's really at stake in the race to build AGI, and what levers we still have |
1:28.9 | to steer it. If you want access to all of our premium content, or you want to learn more about |
1:34.5 | the Hidden Forces genius community and how to attend one of our many virtual Q&A's, in-person events, |
1:40.3 | and dinners, you can do that at hiddenforces.io slash subscribe. And if you still have |
1:47.0 | questions, feel free to send an email to info at hiddenforces.io. And I, or someone from our team, |
1:55.1 | will get right back to you. And with that, please enjoy this incredibly important and timely conversation with my guest, |
2:04.7 | Karen Howe. |
... |
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