Hey, this is Durey.

Welcome to Part 2 of The People.

On this episode, I talked to John Abumra about his podcast series on Erased.

He also hosts some other podcast, you know, like Radio Lab and more perfect.

But he joined me specifically to talk about this series, which I was fascinated by, which

is all about conversion therapy in America.

There's this wave of legislation that's happening right now.

10-11 states have outlawed conversion therapy.

I think the person who's leading it is Trump, frankly.

They know, like, it's all a backlash to Trump.

And I'm joined by Brittany Clinton, Sam, as always.

Brittany's recording is all separate this time because we were just all in different places

across the world.

And before we begin, at the time of recording, I'm inside the Africa.

I just came back from the apartheid museum.

And one of the things that struck me in the museum, there's so many things to see,

was just how intentional racism, my supremacy has been,

but at home and across the globe, and that denying the intentionality, the structure,

and the planning that went into making it as potent as it's been, really is misunderstanding

the work.

And I left being more mindful that the solutions have to be intentional and thoughtful

and planned that we won't undo these things that people worked very hard to make concrete

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