Hey everybody. Welcome to becoming the people. I wonder if this is true for other people but there are certain people whose work I read

I listen to them on podcast when I can I follow them on social media and I have kind of a running conversation with them happening

only in my mind.

Kaicheng-Tom is one of those people for me.

She often shares things or rights pieces that I find

deeply evocative, really challenging often for me. They kind of challenge the edges or things that I've come to understand.

And she also writes with such a beauty and a tenderness that I feel compelled and somehow capable of interrogating those edges or

those limits I had before. We also have a lot in common. We're both somatic practitioners. We are both authors.

We also work on issues of transformative justice. We work with groups in conflict.

We work with organizations, and so I think about her as a peer and teacher

to me.

And this is the first time that we've ever had a conversation so you'll probably hear me

being pretty geeked out about being able to share some space with her, to witness her,

experience her.

And I'm really, really grateful that I had this time

to just ask even a fraction of the questions

that I have for her.

If you're not yet familiar with Kaicheng Tom,

as I said, she's a somatic practitioner,

she's a performance artist, she's a community healer,

and a lot of her work is about the

revolutionary potential of radical love and she focuses on the intersection of

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