Jeff Bezos is building a moonlander that might fly as soon as this year.

And if that would be ready, that could be used.

And there's some people in Washington who see the possibility of Jeff Bezos gets the moon

and Elon Musk gets Mars as a way to sort of square the circle here.

Yeah. wear in the circle here. Hello and welcome to Decom Won't Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation

Magazine. I'm your host,

Paris Marks, and this week my guest is Tim Fernholtz. Tim is a senior reporter at payload space

and the author of Rocket Billionaires, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and the New Space Race.

Since Elon Musk embraced Donald Trump and took on the head of Doge, there have been many

aspects of that story that we have been following,

that people have been discussing, but maybe one of the ones that hasn't received the attention

it deserves is what this means for space policy in the United States, but also for NASA as an

agency itself. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone to hear that Elon Musk is very invested in

what the future of the American

space program is going to look like, because it also shapes what his company is going to do

and whether it is going to profit from the direction that NASA and the space program go in

the coming years. And obviously, Elon Musk has very specific ideas about how that should work

and about what priorities the

United States should be setting for the future of its space program. So in this episode, I wanted to talk to

Tim about what he has been seeing in the influence Elon Musk has been having on what the Trump

administration has been doing with NASA, especially as the initial budget suggests there are going to

be huge cuts to

...