And the I'm Bill Crystal.

I'm Bill Crystal.

Joining me today is Elliot Abrams, who's held senior positions in the State Department

in the Reagan administration and in the White House

in the George W Bush administration.

Elliot, thanks for being here.

My pleasure.

Did you expect to serve over 15 years in the State Department

in the White House when you first came to Washington?

I didn't.

I came to Washington to work for the late Senator

Henry M Jackson, Scoop Jackson, in the Senate and to go home, which was New York. I thought

I'd be here for a couple of years

and then leave town.

So, and I actually did spend more than four years

in the Senate, but then Ronald Reagan got elected.

And you know, when I came here, I thought of Ronald Reagan as a sort of movie star.

The idea that he'd be president and I'd work for him was not in my mind.

Well, tell me more about that.

So you came as a, you worked for a Democratic, two Democratic senators.

Well I was a Democrat, raised as a Democrat in New York City and I was a Democrat.

And I would say a hard line Democrat, a hardline foreign policy Democrat in as we thought,

...