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The Gist

Elliot Williams: "We'll get the girls from Annie to even things out"

The Gist

Peach Fish Productions

Daily News, News

4.53.7K Ratings

🗓️ 26 January 2026

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams joins to talk about his new book Five Bullets: The Story of Bernie Goetz, New York's Explosive '80s, and the Subway Vigilante Trial That Divided the Nation.  He walks through the courtroom oddities, like a "ballistics demonstration" staged with Guardian Angels as stand-ins, and explains why there was always a legally defensible path to either convicting or acquitting Goetz. The conversation places New York itself as another character in the story of safety and perception, showing how fear influenced juror belief. Plus the idea of moral injury and how official narratives around the recent Minneapolis ICE shootings of Renée Good and Alex Pretti reflect ethical damage being felt in real bodies and in public outrage. Produced by Corey Wara Coordinated by Lya Yanne Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig Do you have questions or comments, or just want to say hello? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠thegist@mikepesca.com For full Pesca content and updates, check out our website at https://www.mikepesca.com/⁠ For ad-free content or to become a Pesca Plus subscriber, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://subscribe.mikepesca.com/ For Mike's daily takes on Substack, subscribe to The Gist List https://mikepesca.substack.com/ Follow us on Social Media:⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4_bh0wHgk2YfpKf4rg40_g⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/pescagist/ X https://x.com/pescami TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@pescagist To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠ad-sales@libsyn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://advertising.libsyn.com/TheGist

Transcript

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0:00.0

It's Monday, January 26th, 2026.

0:06.4

From Peachfish Productions, it's the gist I'm Mike Peska.

0:10.0

I was reading about a couple who decided to leave the United States.

0:14.0

There was a phrase used to describe their thinking that the author of the article didn't really spell out, but it stuck with me.

0:20.1

The phrase was moral injury.

0:22.6

They saw Trump's re-election on what the country has become as a kind of moral injury. The piece

0:28.2

was written before the killings in Minnesota, but over the weekend, I kept thinking about

0:33.0

that phrase. Now, this is not where I am personally, but I understand how people get there.

0:40.2

Many don't see these incidents, these shootings, the last two killings, as isolated excesses or

0:46.8

a strong man or want to be strongman or already is strong man doing his thing. They see them as

0:53.1

confirmation as the proof that the story they

0:56.8

believed in no longer constrains behavior. Most people knew, of course, America wasn't perfect,

1:03.4

that it was contested, but the feeling of those who are morally injured. And in the case of

1:09.1

the story, I was reading, it's people who felt they needed to live the United States, I think for many, many people who are more than just

1:16.2

aggrieved at an injustice. It's more and worse than the feeling this isn't the country I thought

1:23.6

it was. It's more like, I don't want to walk around all day inside a place that constantly

1:29.5

reminds me of a story that now hurts on a psychic level, an unshakable disillusionment. It's like

1:38.2

being inside of grief where everything is a reminder of who you just lost, except what you just lost, is the idea of your

1:46.7

country. The constant contradiction of what maybe you thought it was or could be and what it is

1:52.1

causes a kind of pain. So let's get to the ICE incident. About 40% of the U.S. supports these

1:59.4

efforts broadly, meaning if you ask them, do you support Donald Trump

2:02.4

on immigration? They still say yes. It's down at least 12% from its height. I don't think most people,

...

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