Hello. It's wonderful to see you. Thank you. Thank you for your time again. I

don't know how you think back on the conversation we had back in 2014 in your

home but as time has passed I've come to realize like it's one of the most

treasured encounters I've had in my work and in my life. Really? Yeah and for a

number of reasons I think like you let me into your home I started asking you

very probing questions about things you had written about in your memoir but

maybe things that you didn't talk about at length with journalists often and I

can hear back in that tape all the moments where you were making choices about

how honest to be you know that's so interesting here. This is how I started my

recent video call with Ellen Burstin as we were talking again while she sat in

her upper Manhattan apartment. This is Deaf Sex and Money the show about the

things we think about a lot and need to talk about more. I'm Anna Sale. We shared

that first conversation I had with Ellen in 2014 in our podcast feed last week.

She was 81 then. Last December Ellen turned 90 years old. When we spoke

recently a new dog was curled at her feet. Her name is Carrie. Uh-huh. She's right

here beside me. She lifts her head. You talking about me? Yeah. She's a King

Charles Cavalier and a poodle. She's very smart and she's remarkably friendly.

When we go out for a walk she wants to say hello to everybody. She knows all the

dormant. She has her favorites that she goes wild when she sees them. She's

just polite. Discerning. So we have a very good time together.

Carrie came into Ellen's life midway into pandemic isolation. Ellen's last dog

had died just before COVID and after about a year of mourning she decided she was

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