From WNYC Studios, I'm Brian Lerer. This is my daily politics podcast. It's Friday, October 25th.

Here's a promise. No matter who wins the election, no matter how weird things get during the vote counting and possible court challenge period that lies ahead in the next few weeks, maybe months, we will be here not just to bring you the latest news, but to help keep you sane.

We promise. We'll be here as a hub of information and also as a hub of commiseration, if that's what you need,

planning for the future, and as always a place of preservation of our democracy.

So now we'll start to prepare you and prepare myself for what may lie just ahead.

We may remember the post-election period in 2020 most for the January 6th

insurrection, but what came first was more than 60 lawsuits filed by the Trump team trying to

nullify the real election result in court. So we have a very relevant guest who was already in the thick of election season legal battles, but who has agreed to give us some time today for an interview. It's Mark Elias, chair of the Elias Law Group, which specializes in voting rights and election campaign cases. He's also the founder of Democracy Docket, which calls itself the leading progressive

platform for information, analysis, and opinion about voting rights, elections, and democracy.

Full disclosure, he is working with the Harris campaign. Some of you may have heard him on the

station on the New Yorker Radio Hour with David Remnick in September. A lot has happened since. Mark,

thanks very much for some time. Welcome to WNYC. Thank you for having me on, and I am all in favor of

a place of bringing sanity. Thank you. We'll do our best. Would you begin by reminding us of the

main strategies that they used in court in 2020

because they never really claimed election fraud per se, right? There were all these backdoor

procedural claims mostly. Yeah. So I think that's a really important point. You know,

there was this magical moment in a federal court in Florida,

I'm sorry, in Pennsylvania rather, after Rudy Giuliani held his, you know, famous press conference

in the parking lot of a landscaping company in which the judge actually turns to him and says,

you know, Mr. Giuliani, are you alleging fraud? And he he pauses for a second and he says, no. And so, you know, Mr. Giuliani, are you alleging fraud? And he, he pauses for a second and he says, no.

And so, you know, for all of the bravado that Donald Trump and his allies

brought to the, have brought to the table around this and all of the misinformation and

...