E185 - Henry Shukman: A Zen Master With 40 Years of Practice on Who You Really Are
Know Thyself
André Duqum
4.8 • 658 Ratings
🗓️ 10 March 2026
⏱️ 127 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Zen teacher and author Henry Shukman offers a clear and grounded introduction to the heart of Zen practice. We explore how awakening is not an escape from life, but a deeper participation in it — a realization that dissolves the illusion of separation and reveals a boundless field of awareness and love.
Henry shares his own spontaneous awakening experience at 19, the profound insight that life is not divided between self and world, and the difficult healing journey that followed. From mindfulness and meditation to flow states, jhanas, koans, and the role of trauma in spiritual growth, this conversation maps out a path that integrates awakening with emotional healing.
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00:00 Intro
01:26 An Introduction to Zen
13:10 The Premise of Original Love
17:14 Training the Mind Like the Body
20:54 Freedom From Identification With Thought
27:50 What Are the Jhanas?
32:50 Ad: Saily
33:54 Tasting Awakening for Yourself
45:17 Awakening vs Psychological Healing
50:17 Awakening as an Ongoing Path
54:54 The Distinct Path of Zen
59:13 Koans as a Path to Insight
1:13:53 The Enlightenment of the Mundane
1:20:07 The Freedom of Emptiness
1:26:16 The Necessity of Meditation Practice
1:34:32 Sweeping the Yard (A Zen Poem)
1:43:33 Beauty, Ethics, and Interconnection
1:47:33 The Journey to a Whole Heart (A Poem on Heartbreak)
2:02:58 Original Love in a Fragmented World
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Episode Resources:
https://www.instagram.com/henryshukman/
https://www.instagram.com/theway_app/
https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/
https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/
https://www.youtube.com/@knowthyselfpodcast
https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This life is a movie and the purpose of life is to turn around and see the projector. |
| 0:07.0 | So much of the modern mindfulness movement is focusing on mindfulness as a thing that I do. |
| 0:13.0 | And it doesn't really point us to the total connectivity of our lives. |
| 0:19.0 | It's not a path out of the world. It's a path deeply into the world. |
| 0:23.6 | And I think this is a really important flavor of Zen. |
| 0:26.6 | Now, I'm going to just, can I tell you a quick story, personal? |
| 0:30.6 | When I began the path of meditative training nearly 40 years ago, I had no idea. |
| 0:35.6 | You don't need to have practiced in order to have |
| 0:39.0 | realisation or awakening. It's so easy for us to think it's down the road, but it can't be. |
| 0:45.0 | There is only now. But also, I think it's really true. Freedom's just another word for nothing |
| 0:51.9 | left to lose. In other words, the pain of heartbreak can open the heart. |
| 0:57.6 | And when the heart is open, we're really alive. |
| 1:06.7 | Hey everyone, welcome back to the Know They Self podcast. |
| 1:10.0 | Our guest today is an authorized teacher in the Sambo Zen lineage. |
| 1:13.6 | She is a poet, a novelist, creator of the Way app, |
| 1:17.6 | and an incredible voice in the space of Zen. |
| 1:21.6 | Henry Shookman, thank you for being here. |
| 1:23.6 | It's great to be with you, Andre. |
| 1:25.6 | Your voice has an incredible sound, especially for guided meditations. |
| 1:31.0 | I am looking forward to having this episode be a solid introduction into the world of Zen, which I think has become quite commercialized, that term. |
| 1:41.6 | However catchy it is, has been put on many different packages as a branding for |
| 1:48.2 | well-being. |
... |
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