Hello, Hidden Gems. It is Lauren and John, the hidden true crime duo officially.

And we have a very special show about the Duggers today. We have a lot to talk about ever since

Joseph Dugger was charged. We released an episode earlier today, or I did. We have been waiting and waiting and hinting at John

joining this episode for a long time. We want to ask him some questions about family systems.

We want to ask you about the Michelle Dugger video because I gave my two cents without talking to you about it and now I have questions.

So I actually hope we can start there, the Michelle Dugger paparazzi video and a bunch of other stuff.

So we're and by the way, if anybody's wondering, yes, we are co-host, but we're also spouses.

So it's not that weird.

We're like sitting this close on the couch. Yeah. Right. That's true. A lot of people probably don't know

that were spouses. Well, someone didn't realize the other day. So I was like, oh, no, I'm not like

just sitting this close to my co-host. How you i'm good i'm good um glad to be here this

is a this so this is a this is a this is going to give us an opportunity to talk about these type of

family systems when i say that i mean family systems that tend to be more authoritarian family

systems that tend to be more religious based right there's a number of layers here that we want to unpack.

And we've talked about these types of families a lot,

but I think this is going to really open the door

to a more in-depth discussion of these types of families.

So I want to do that.

And I think people are used to kind of me opening

with a question that really will provide some focus. So if you want to understand this family

system and the Dugger family system and the Frankie family system, so this is going to be not

just about the Duggers. This will be about the D duggers, but it'll be, I think our discussion is going to be much broader

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