Drones, Discord, and the Shifting Front in Ukraine

War on the Rocks

News, Politics

4.6 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 30 July 2025

⏱️ 27 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Fresh from his latest research trip to Ukraine's battlefields, Michael Kofman joins Ryan for an insightful discussion on the shifting dynamics at the front, the role of drones in Ukraine's defensive strategy, and the adaptation of Ukrainian military command structures in real time. They explore the political turmoil gripping Ukraine, including contentious reforms targeting anti-corruption agencies, and delve into evolving Western efforts for supplying arms to Ukraine. Their conversation also tackles the implications of President Trump's growing frustration with Putin and provides a clear-eyed assessment of Senator Graham's proposed Sanctioning Russia Act of 2025, and what it might mean (or, not mean) for the future of the conflict. Kofman goes into many of these issues further in his show, "The Russia Contingency," so don't miss out on becoming a member. Join at warontherocks.com/membership

Transcript

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0:00.0	You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on strategy, defense, and foreign affairs.
0:13.8	My name's Ryan Evans.
0:15.0	I'm the founder of War in the Rocks, and I'm sitting here with my friend and yours, Michael Kaufman of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
0:22.5	Mike, you just got back from another field study to Ukraine with some colleagues.
0:28.2	Tell us about it.
0:29.1	It was a very interesting trip.
0:30.5	We just got back about a week ago.
0:33.8	And I am now in the process of working through the findings,
0:38.1	and hopefully it will be several podcasts that folks who follow Russia and things you can tune into,
0:43.2	where I, Rob Lee, and others are going to discuss the details,
0:46.6	but I'm happy to share some of the big picture insights with you in this discussion.
0:50.9	What are the three big things that you discovered or learned more about?
0:54.8	So the first is that, at least at the tactical level, a lot of this war now comes down
1:00.3	to who is more effective in employing drones and various drone strike capabilities.
1:07.1	And that's what's determining initiative on the ground.
1:09.9	I think what I found has changed in the last
1:11.9	couple of months, unfortunately, is that while Ukraine has led both innovation and in the quality
1:21.2	of its drone forces, establishing a line of drones initiative and sort of overall being much better
1:26.8	organized and integrate in how he
1:28.5	uses drones in support of the fight because it doesn't have the same material means that
1:33.3	Russia does when it comes to artillery or the same material advantage. Russian forces have been
1:39.1	catching up. They've gotten organized. They're deploying their own lead drone units called Rubicon,
	...

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