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quince.com slash offline. In the 1960s, this was a core strategic insight. How do we put on a protest?

We stage a protest, right? They're dramatizing injustice. There's real intention about constructing

narratives in the public mind. There has to be a story. There have to be good guys and bad guys.

There have to be a kind of, in some ways,

a moral high ground and people want to identify with the characters who are on the moral

high ground. I think that's the real problem with the democratic narrative that's being offered,

or the kind of more tactical stuff that we're seeing from prominent Democrats is,

you know, we were in this kind of epic moment and they're offering

very tactical sorts of messaging. And I think it's actually, there's an invitation to be a

part of something that is really important right now, which is defending democracy.

I'm John Favreau, and you just heard from political scientist Omar Wausau, who talked with me about what movements, particularly the civil rights movement, can teach us about the most effective ways to protest, organize, move public opinion, and bring about real change.

And before we get to our conversation, I just want to spend a few minutes on why this

has been on my mind. If politics isn't your profession or addiction, there's a decent chance you

don't remember or know or care about all the insanity coming out of this White House. I don't blame you.

Even if you try, it's just a lot. You might have a general sense that things aren't great.

If you listen to us, you might think that actually things are pretty bad.

But when you look away from the screen, your world probably seems pretty calm, at least by comparison.

You go to work, you live your life.

For most of us, most days don't feel all that different. And besides,

...