Welcome to the Prophecy Prose Podcast.

I'm Jeff Kinley along with Todd Hampson.

And today our special guest is Dr. Tony Evans.

And you obviously know who Tony is.

If not, you're about to learn.

He's the founder and senior pastor of the 10,000 member

Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship in Dallas,

the founder and president of the Urban Alternative,

former chaplain of the NFL's Dallas Cowboys,

and a present chaplain of the NBA's Dallas Mavericks.

His radio broadcast, The Alternative with Dr. Tony Evans,

can be heard on over a thousand U.S. radio outlets every day and in more than 130 countries.

And for me personally, I've had the privilege of studying under Dr. Evans way back in the day at Dallas Seminary, where I had him for evangelism and some other courses, and it was never, ever a dull moment.

Dr. Evans, thank you so much for

joining us. Welcome to the Prophecy Prose podcast. Thank you. Good to be with you. Well, Dr. Evans,

you've written books on leadership, spoken at leadership events. Actually, I've even been to a

couple way back in the day. I'm from the D.C. area, so I was at a RFK event and stand in the gap and got to see you get your preach on and just really enjoyed that.

But you've had some very impactful ministry organizations for many years.

What wisdom can you share about leading through difficult and challenging times?

Well, difficult and challenging times show whether leadership is really there or not.

A leader has to know the way, go the way, and show the way.

He must be able to ascertain the reality of things, know how he should proceed, show others why they need to go in that particular direction,

...