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Welcome to the bucksexton show everybody on this episode we have dr. Jay Baha charia with us were very excited to talk to him about well health policies relates to covid and so much more.

Dr. Baha charia's professor at Stanford University Medical School teaching in the Department of Health Policy is a research associate the national bureau of economic research.

A founding fellow of the Academy of Science at freedom at Hillsdale College and co wrote the great barrington declaration a focused protection alternative to lockdowns.

Dr. Baha charia honored to speak with you sir as as in a very early huge supporter booster adopter of the great barrington declaration I feel like I'm in the presence of sanity royalty.

Thank you for for your sanity to buck appreciate the support for it.

Thank you for having me on so.

Just for everyone listening to this if they you know subscribe to my show and.

You know what I'm gonna say which is so you're right so the great barrington declaration was as correct more correct now even if that's possible that it was then because we played out the experiment on the other side of what.

What happened let me start with this because it's such a big topic and I and we don't you know you've got people to save and young minds to mold and all that stuff at Stanford.

How is it that all the institutions of medicine seem to get this entirely wrong and would not speak out at all in favor of some sanity on this.

I mean I think there was some element of policy hysteresis what which I mean like very early on the Chinese example the January 2020 Chinese lockdown played a enormously important role in the minds of public health people like the world health organization sense of delegation to China in February.

And they came back like they wrote this report saying what China did worked and then everyone copied China all the countries one by one from Italy on it was like dominoes falling in with these lockdowns and you know how do you do something so dramatic so devastating they're already had you know it's really hard if you're like at the top of some high bureaucracy some hierarchy especially if you're a scientist to admit that you got it wrong.

And so I think that that like by the time October 2020 rolled around I mean I saw very clearly the lockdowns it failed in October in April March April 2020 and that I'd already gotten we're already seen all the devastating reports are coming out of poor countries and even rich countries about what had happened to poor people during the lockdowns.

And so I and I also saw that the lockdowns are coming back. And so what what's happened I think since is it's a lot of people who should have known better and maybe now they actually do know better but they can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong.

So they do they sort of lose their status lose their position lose their power.

Now did you have docs coming to you colleagues people you know the medical community who were bait were saying to you look I know this is all crap like this the paper masks really the masks period aren't doing anything for anybody the lockdowns were a disaster didn't stop the virus at all.

And you know the vaccines are nowhere near what they were promised to be and and I want I want to get your take on exactly how you'd grade the vaccines in a moment.

But did you have people coming to you in 2021 2022 I mean I mean later on in the pandemic or was the group think so strong that mds even from very esteemed institutions like you know Stanford University medical school just couldn't see what was obvious.

So in 2020 I'm pretty sure I was not a majority my view was not the majority within Stanford but it might have been a pretty prominent much more prominent than people realized right so when we wrote the great anti declaration almost immediately actually released a tens of thousands of scientists signed on very prominent scientists signed on including Nobel Prize winner here at Stanford it was it was it was really clear that there was a pretty substantial portion of the scientific community that was very deeply unhappy with the fact that it was a very important thing to do.

And I was very deeply unhappy with the lockdowns that that what actually was not a consensus the scientific consensus behind them and that actually that there was a lot of people who thought what we were proposing which is essentially lifting lockdowns and focus protection of vulnerable older people was a better strategy is a strategy actually about just to be clear that that strategy we proposed the great anti declaration that's basically the old pandemic plan we followed for a century respiratory virus pandemics I was just cribbing off with people that were smarter than me for over the last century.

It wasn't like we had a really truly novel thing so it's not surprising that a lot of people but the suppression was so the censorship the smearing of people that said no was so severe that a lot of people kept themselves silent a lot of very prominent people kept themselves silent after we wrote the great anti declaration the people that signed it some of them lost their jobs a lot of them face like you know investigations and other things within their own universities for you know for heresy I guess.

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