That's what she said. That's what she said. That's what she said. That's what she said.

That's what she said.

Welcome to That's what she said. Conversations with interesting people from the world of sports, music, comedy and more.

Talking about their lives, careers, successes and failures.

Hey everybody, Sarah here. Just wanted to give you a heads up. This podcast was a day late

if you were paying attention to that sort of thing because I have some great podcast coming up for you. Adam Palley, the comedian and actor,

SNL cast member Heidi Gardner. I've got some great stuff in the can that's going to be coming up in the next couple of weeks.

But it just didn't feel right to run it this week with all that's going on. I wanted to have a meaningful conversation with someone much smarter and more informed than I am.

And I wanted to bring it to you guys and hopefully you'll engage with it and listen to it.

It's not preachy. I don't think it's not angry. It's it's hopefully a real honest conversation about what we need to do to change things and make it so that what we're seeing on our television and what is being experienced by so many of our friends and neighbors and colleagues doesn't have to continue to be the way it is.

And so I hope you enjoyed it's a conversation with professor Eddie Glaude, Jr. He's the chair of the Department of African American Studies at Princeton University.

The author of several books, including the forthcoming book begin again James Baldwin's America and its urgent lessons for our own.

It's available in August. I want to thank all of you. I asked on Twitter for several recommendations of people that you find you enjoy their work on race in America the most.

I got lots of names. I'm following lots of them. Professor Glad seemed like a great voice for this. And so I hope you enjoy my conversation with him.

At the end of the podcast, I'm going to do a quick reading from Glenn and Doyle's new book Untamed. And I posted some screenshots of the pages of this section from her book on racism online.

But I know it can be tough to click on that and read. And it's not, you know, the optics of looking at a photograph of a page of a book aren't great.

So I'm just going to read a short section that I think is really useful, especially for white people who believe themselves to not be racist, but maybe have not taken that next step into being actively anti-racist and being a part of the solution.

If you don't know the difference between that sort of passive, I'm not racist and active. I'm anti-racist. It would be a good thing for you to listen to.

And if you already know that, maybe listen to it anyway, I found reading it that some of the defensiveness that sometimes I feel when I want to bring my voice to activism in these conversations was highlighted by her as well and reminded me that I need to do the work to be a part of this and be a part of the change.

And to really kind of strip down those ideas of what it means to be an ally. So I hope you stick around for that at the end of this conversation.

But here's my conversation with Professor Cloud.

That's what she said.

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