In the race to scale with AI, you need data infrastructure that can match your pace. EverPierre's data storage platform brings all your data into one hub. No silos, no scrambling, just instant access to tame your data chaos. And with EverPierre's storage as a service subscription, your storage and security upgrade automatically with zero downtime, your infrastructure stays current so your business never slows down. Visit EverPierreData.com to more today. With EverPure, you're not just in the race. You're built to win it. In the race to scale with AI, you need data infrastructure that can match your pace. EverPure's data storage platform brings all your data into one hub. No silos, no scrambling, just instant access to tame your data chaos. And with EverPure's storage is a service subscription, your storage and security upgrade automatically with zero downtime. Your infrastructure stays current, so your business never slows down. Visit EverpureData.com to learn more today. With Everpure, you're not just in the race, you're built to win it. Folks, my new graphic novel, Unwanted at Tall tall tale of the Old Weston New Wave, is out

for pre-order.

Now, I've been working on this for 25 years.

It's a dark comedy with a shiny exterior.

Please check it out at UnwantedBook.com. Good afternoon Michael Malice here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour. Guys, we're in for a treat for some unfathomable reason. Dr. Drew has agreed to do the show again. He needs no introduction, except I do want to remind people that he is a real doctor and not a Jill Biden doctor. So Dr. Drew, thank you for coming back to the show. I guess I'm a fan of abuse. That's why, or special, the special kind of abuse that you've meet out. Well, that's funny you say that because later in this episode, I figured out a good way to torture you. And a useful way to maximize the effectiveness of torture is to warn the person that they're going to be tortured, but not tell them the nature of said torture. So be hanging over their head like the sort of Damocles and wondering when is it going to start and what is it going to look like in the in the human the way humans are the opposite is also true. If you tell them how what it's going to be how long it's going to be how bad it's going to be we can endure it better. But the unknown thank you for that Michael. I want to hear you expel on that because I had a friend and shit a shrink and he had pointed out to her that people who have a diagnosis that's even terminal, it's a lot easier for them to wrap their heads around it than I don't know what's wrong with me, which is counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive, but humans do not like the unknown and if they know what's coming, they tolerate it better. That's the basic, it's just a feature of the human being. Can you explain how that works? No, it's just, it's like explaining why we walk on two legs, it's just one of our features. How would that evolve? It would be the question. You know, I guess it would motivate us to seek meaning and, you know, sort of understanding and everything. It just it's just a sign that the unknown is the scariest of all, one of the scariest of all things for us. You know, it's funny. I do this in my own life because I'd never been in a fight and I had my friend who's a lot bigger than we did with fight club just so I know what it's like in a hit in the face and it sucks and I don't ever want to happen again but point being if I'm ever in that situation I know I can get through it and it's not now going to cause me to modify my behavior out of fear it'll be like all right I really want to go through this but it goes down under face your fears right it's it's sort of in the same category yeah, every time I have like been anxious about something that came to light, it turned out that eh, wasn't so bad after all. Yeah, isn't the most common thing elderly people say when asked about what they would have done differently? They say I wouldn't have worried so much. Yes, that's right. That's right. And although I don't I don't know about how you are, but I know how I am. I'd worry anyway. Something that's, well, I'm a little different and this could be my Russian upbringing. So with the Russian upbringing, and this has never made explicit to me, but it's something I'd gleaned, I guess. I always, when I'm dealing with someone, I always assume, not assume, prepare. What if this person falls through or betrays you? And then you have a contingency plan. So when it happens, you're not having that panic of a crap. It's really kind of laid out. And especially when dealing with something like publishing, when the stories the stories are horrific It's just like oh, okay. I knew this person was unreliable and now I don't have to skip a beat Are you Jewish? Yes Yeah, so the catastrophizing is a uniquely Ashkenazi Jew thing But you put a special Russian flavor on it which other people will let you down just life and everything in it, but specifically people will let you down, which I think is fantastic. I don't think life lets me down at all. I think life can come through for me phenomenally. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The catastrophizing, that's a Jewish thing. That's from the heritage. You know, things, things are going great, but watch out tomorrow, you know, the world comes to an end. You know, it's interesting you say that. Let's talk. So now I'm on the couch because this is one of the big reasons I don't have a possibility to ship with my family. So there was this show called Russian Dolls, Not the most unt'm touch on the own. It was a rip off of Jersey Shore about Brighton Beach, which was a Russian Jewish community. And it's a bunch of young Russian kids, right? And one girl I remember, she was in college and she was kept switching major. She didn't know what she wanted to do. So she took an aptitude course and it told her what her proclivities are and she'd be good as an attorney. So she's with her mom in the beauty salon. I think they're getting their nails done or the hair, what Adam and Robert was. And this is her big announcement. She goes, mom, I've been struggling for a long time as you know with my major. I figured out what it is. I'm going to go to law school and the first thing out of her mom's mouth is how you can pay for it. And the girl loses her mind. Now, if you're watching at home, the girl looks like a crazy person because it's like, your mom asked the very germane question and it's something everyone, law school is exorbitant, so and so forth. But I knew it really this was years of whenever you had anything slightly positive or hopeful, the immediate reaction is pull the rug out every single time. And after what's like, can't we worry about paying the law school, you know, and she's like people pay for law school all the time. We'll figure it out. But but it's like, why is that your go to instead of all that's so great, you must feel so relieved. Do you think that's unique to your family and this Jersey Shore family? No, no, that's what I'm saying is you liquidist phenomenon. This is what I'm talking about. I'm agreeing with what you're saying. And it's I don't and I very much fight against that Mindsent and I don't have. You just said you have it. You just said that's how I prepare for a guest to cancel on me. Every time. Do I ever let you down? There's a difference between preparing and expecting and there's a difference when that's your first go-to reaction is where do you think that comes from? Where does that come from? Well, obviously she's from the Soviet Union where you can't rely on anything. Well, not just Soviet Union, but Jewish history is one catastrophe after another. So much so I worry that all the catastrophizing brings it on because it's just one and it's just and so you know the world's gonna come to an end tomorrow is a constant refrain Back to the Bible right? But my point is is something I have I'll give you an example of how it affected me personally I did not this is not the torturing. I was now I'm the one getting tortured. I remember this is 25 years ago. I met with some big shot agent, right? And I was shopping around a novel. And the guy was receptive. We had a good meeting. And he says, send me, I'll take a look at it. I was cautiously optimistic, right? And I said to myself, this is the one time I'm gonna call my dad first. I'm gonna give him a chance to kind of be the go-to. Let me give him the opportunity. And the first thing out of his mouth is, well, of course he's gonna blow smoke up your ass and tell you he's gonna get a published. And I'm like, he didn't even say that. He just said he's gonna read it,

which other people haven't done.

Look, you have to understand. People will tell you what you wanna hear. I'm like, that's not how agents, he has this script. And Drew, you know this, and people watch this, probably know this, with literary agents of the opposite. They're very quick to tell you know, I'm not interested. I mean, they're very gay keepery. And they're not at all unless you're like someone on a high level blowing smoke up your ass. And his immediate reaction is, don't hope, don't hope, don't hope. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, there's no cost. I'm sending him to the manuscript. There's no cost in me hoping, although then, OK, maybe I'll be disappointed, but he didn't promise me anything. So, I was such a like a light bulb memory for me. Right. So, Zoll very familiar to me. And it ends up eroding yourself a steam and your confidence. And I would argue that's a blessing. That one of the, the self-esteem movement was a catastrophe. And when you have a low self-esteem, you prepare for trouble like you do. You take responsibility for everything. And the only downside is it's hard to feel, it's hard to feel like you've ever accomplished anything. Because if you live in that kind of an environment, nothing was ever good enough, right? Everything was, right, good for now, but you know, don't imagine you're somebody, that kind of thing. Which I would argue is a good thing. So you can spin it however you want. There's liabilities with it. So I've fragile esteem, but it's an asset that I lean on all the time. And I look at the disaster of the self-esteem movement. I'm glad I don't have lofty self-esteem that's not connected to reality. But telling you could have lofty self-esteem that is connected to reality, because talking about a total focus of control, there are certain things that I know I am competent at. And to go into it assuming I can't handle it is untrue. Do you need their approval and stuff? I don't mean their approval. You're talking about talking internally. If I'm internally don't have that self-esteem, then I'm gonna be, how am I gonna accomplish anything? I need to know that. Well, because there's a difference between self-esteem and reality testing. You realistically know I have these abilities, I have this thing,

you know, if I succeed, I shouldn't expect to succeed, but if I do fantastic. And it's sort of, it's, again, you know, I'm making a case, right? I'm saying I'm grateful for my self-esteem as what I'm saying. But yeah, I understand there's liability attached to it. But I think it's how, maybe this is my iron ran brain talking. I don't understand the utility of, I'm of the mindset that if something is untrue, it's always bad or almost always bad. So if someone is accomplished with certain things and they know they can do those things

and they take pride in those things. Even if it's, hey, I make great chocolate chip cookies, I have to be in Nobel Prize. Yes. Like, how is it bad for that person to have high self-esteem that's reality-based in that context? That is in how that's good reality testing and that is, there's a little bit of a subtle difference because we're talking about parenting and stuff you're really underlying all this.

But what you're saying is the ability to accept that you are accomplished and you do these things and you're sort of nourished by that. That's where the low self-esteem thing becomes a liability, right? Both cases are reality assessed accurately, which is really the important thing here. And on one case, it's difficult to fill the low self-esteem on the other. It's, I feel good about it because I'm accomplished at it, which is healthier. Granch you, I grant you. But the thing with low, there's a difference between being, I want to split these hairs because I think it's for the torture begins for me. What's that? This is the torture.

This is my torture.

No, no, no.

Or to go over my low self-esteem. Although that is, no, that is going to lead into the torture to be honest. But I just think that you're shrink, right? So you see. No, I am an intern. People mistake what I am all the time. Okay. about mental health because I worked in a psychiatric hospital for 30 years.

And I set it the crossroads of. I know about mental health because I worked in a psychiatric hospital for 30 years.

Okay.

And I set it the crossroads of medicines in psychiatry doing addiction medicine for over 25 years. And so I understand these things, but I am not a psychiatrist. Okay. But you have a high level of understanding of mental health and mental issues, is that what I say? Yes, I do. So I have always been under the impression

that having a lack of self-esteem is crippling because it's much harder for that person to be self-motivated and having an internal locus of control, though a positive, though having costs, is on net a strong benefit. I make sure of her what you said. Having an internal locus of control, which is I'm responsible for things, is a net benefit, right? And that comes from having a low self-esteem, right? No, no, comes from having a high, having a low self-esteem. No, it does it. High self-esteem, this is the misconception. High self-esteem people, when things go wrong, it must be out there because I'm great.

Well, it's you, it's something out here that's making,

it's a fundamental attribution error that high self-esteem people have. So they don't recruit, why do they, they're not motivated to crack course? Well, if somebody with low self-esteem is like, yeah, I gotta really work at this. I'm pissed shit. I gotta, I gotta go. Now again, this liability that you would get depressed, you could really fall apart too.

But generally speaking, I would say on average, you want to low self-esteem, more than a high self-esteem. Okay, hold on. My understanding of locusts of control, right, is the person's perception of how much of their life or reality is under their control, right? Correct. So due to them, I think it's a better way to think about it. Okay. Is theirs. They own it. Yeah. So I have almost, when I tested in college who knows if it's still the same, I'm sure it's close the same. I had a totally internal locus of control. Good. That leads me to believe that I am responsible for what's in my life. And if something goes wrong, it was, it's my responsibility to, a, maybe I put too much trust in some other person, but be having, maybe I didn't make contingency plans, but it is all my... And by the way, just to put a little political spin on this, people have studied Trump derangement syndrome and almost exclusively external sense of control. People with TDS. Well, I think why that is is, we heard this in the first term, not as much this term. I remember people saying with a straight face, and I don't even know how to reply to them because they were being sincere, I think, how could I be happy if this guy's in the White House? And it's like, what are you, what are you talking about? Like, how is your happiness based on who's farting behind the resolute desk? It's crazy. Well, we've stayed there for 10 years. It seems to me. I think, but anyway, let's go to the Locust of Control. If I have an internal one, good. That does correlate with my high self-esteem because I feel I'm competent to make things happen that I want that happen. Good. I'm not saying you can't have both. I'm saying on some, the high self-esteem usually is not associated with the internal sense of responsibility and control because I'm already that. I suspect the kind of high self-esteem I'm talking about is very high self-esteem, which is what the self-esteem movement brought us, people with unrealistically high sense of self-esteem. You mean that kind of, and I don't want it not in a literal sense, NPD, but that kind of narcissism where things are do me, I am whatever I do is going to be great. I don't have to put in the work. I'm just awesome, like, from the jump. Think about all the children's programming. You're you because you're you and you're great because you're you. It's a worst messaging in the world. And we went, we went full hog on that for 20 years. And it's been, it's been a net, bent negative. Can you talk a bit about the, what you see as the negative consequences of that kind of messaging? Exactly what you described. And you can't reality test. You feel victimized when the world doesn't cooperate with your greatness. You don't feel a need to improve and to participate because you're already you, you're great. I mean, if you're great, why why it's all done. What do we have? What do we have to do here? The work work here is done. And obviously I'm being real facetious with these sort of extreme descriptions, but on net, he's had that effect on people.

One of the greatest things that ever happened to me in my life,

my very, very sad life is I got to be an underwear model.

...