Dr. Desiree Jones on Neurodivergence: Who Decides What’s “Normal”?

Alive with Steve Burns

Lemonada Media

Society & Culture

5.0 • 588 Ratings

🗓️ 12 November 2025

⏱️ 46 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Steve wonders what the difference between “normal” and “not normal” is. His friend Desi drops by to help him out! Dr. Desiree Jones is an Assistant Professor of Psychology and director of the SHINE Lab (Stigma, Human Interaction, and Neurodivergent Experiences) at the University of Maryland. She received her PhD in Psychological Sciences from the University of Texas at Dallas. She was named in the Forbes 30 Under 30: Science list for 2023. Her research focuses on neurodivergence, stigma, and identity. Go to quince.com/alive for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Go to zocdoc.com/alive to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/stevealive. You can follow Steve Burns @steveburnsalive on Instagram. Watch full episodes of Alive on YouTube. Stay up to date with Lemonada on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at @LemonadaMedia. If you haven’t yet, now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You’ll get ad-free episodes and bonus content from Steve. Just hit the 'subscribe' button on Apple Podcasts, or, for all other podcast apps head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. Click this link for a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this show and all Lemonada shows: lemonadamedia.com/sponsors See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Lemonada
0:02.0	Hey, there you are.
0:18.0	Great to see you.
0:20.0	Come on in. Welcome to Alive. So, okay. Would you consider yourself to be a normal person.
0:50.9	I'm making tea. I'm making tea.
0:51.0	Do you want tea?
0:52.1	Okay.
0:53.3	Um, I'd say most of the time I consider myself to be a
1:01.9	relatively normal person but then I remember that I'm a 51 year old eccentric bachelor who has
1:10.7	elected to live entirely alone,
1:13.2	off-grid in the woods halfway up a mountain like some bald woodland crypted.
1:20.3	And I think, eh, maybe not so much.
1:25.3	I ask because, you know, there's a lot of talk about neurodivergence lately, autism, especially.
1:35.6	And, you know, the way that people who think or communicate differently relate to the rest of us.
1:45.0	Here's your tea.
1:47.0	And I know that blues clues had a really profound impact on the autistic community and I've always wanted to know why.
1:57.0	And anyway, everyone's different, right?
2:02.3	Unique.
2:08.2	So it's not always so easy to tell who's neurodivergent anyway. And what does the term even mean, you know?
2:16.5	And also, who gets to decide what's normal? What do you think?
2:24.3	Huh. Huh. Okay. Let's go.
2:41.0	Okay. All right. So, Desiree Jones is an associate professor of psychology and director of the Shine Lab.
	...

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