Welcome to Kennedy saves the world. I'm Kennedy, and I'm going to save your perception of drugs. On this podcast

journey, we've talked about a lot of things. We've talked about legalizing drugs. We've talked

about different drug policy in places like Oregon. I spoke with an ayahuasca dula about some of

the ways that people are exploring their psyche and their trauma and their consciousness with ayahuasca in different countries like Peru and Costa Rica.

And now I have the pleasure being joined by a Columbia University professor.

He's a Zip professor of psychology and psychiatry there at Columbia.

He's a neuroscientist.

I've spoken with him in the

past many times about legalizing drugs and the perception that we have as a culture about drugs

because we've got it all wrong in many, many ways. And he has a new book out. It's called

Drug Use for Grownups, Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear. Dr. Carl Hart is here.

Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Hart. Thank you for having me. It's so good to be with you again,

Kennedy. It's really nice to talk to you because I know it's interesting. There's been a lot of

pearl clutching about your book, and you have taken great time to lay out the arguments in your book,

not only as a scientist, but someone who has engaged in recreational substances. And you've

done a great deal of research on how psychedelics and various substances interact with the brain.

But it was the nugget of wisdom that you sprinkled in the book

where you said that you recreationally use heroin the same way

you recreationally use alcohol.

And people sort of lost their minds when they heard that because it's a very bold thing for a professor,

a neuroscientist and a professor of psychology and psychiatry at an Ivy League school to make.

What kind of pushback have you gotten from that?

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