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Eric Mitaxas.

Oh my, welcome. It's the Eric Mitaxas show. I'm sitting here with the author of Heaven on Earth,

the rise, fall, and afterlife of socialism. Joshua, Marav Chick, Joshua, we were in the previous

I were talking about the book and talking about how socialism failed and at the end of the hour,

you explained to me that you were raised to be socialists and you were very active as a socialist

and then as it were, you were like, I don't know who put it that way, was it Norm Pedoritz or

somebody who said they were mugged by reality, right? That you life family made you see that maybe

this doesn't work and at what point did you get out of being pro-socialist?

Well, I would say probably the key for me was I went back to graduate school when I was already

past 30. I think I was about 31. I had not gone to graduate school because I was such an activist

...