In conversations about climate change, generally speaking, we talk and think in the future tense. It's an immense crisis, but it's

one ahead of us, albeit quickly arriving. We'll see immense almost incomprehensible changes over the 21st century, the 22nd century and centuries thereafter,

but we can still do so much about it because it's in the future.

Well today's guest has a slightly different approach. She was recently introduced at the Frankfurt Book Fair as a post

climate change author. Her read on this issue is that it's not in the future but very much

here in fact we're decades into this crisis. And her bold assertion in a recently published book is that immigration towards the global north isn't just inevitable but could also be relatively speaking advantageous for all involved.

Of course climate change will mean massive disruption to how we all live, but it need not be

chaotic and lead to immense misery and poverty.

Broadly speaking it could work. What if people displaced from Sub-Saharan Africa

went to Greenland, Canada, Russia, and what if Inverness became a global

mega city filled with industrious young people making the goods and services we all need in the 21st century.

It's a startling hypothesis, very interesting, very perhaps controversial, but it's a pragmatic

take on a set of issues which we cannot afford to ignore.

And Guy Vince, welcome to Downstream.

Thank you, lovely to be here.

We are talking about your book. Not so new.

Um, 2020 came out?

It's new. It came out in paperback just a few months ago.

There you go. It's very good.

Always relevant.

Yeah, no, no, what's certainly relevant.

I mean it's going to be relevant in 50 years time and you can pretty glean that from the title

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