Everybody agrees that we need to decarbonise.

We need to reduce the use of fossil fuels and the global economy and move to clean energy

like solar and wind.

The cornerstone technology for all of that is lithium-ion batteries, because of course

the sun doesn't always shine and the wind isn't always blowing. However, despite the insistence

on the necessity of that shift and the much needed and welcome benefits of these technologies,

we don't really know, we don't even really care to ask, where they come from

all the minerals inside them. That's the conversation we're having today on downstream,

because lithium ion batteries are on your laptop, in your phone, increasingly in your car.

And yes, of course, they're made in China, but actually the core components in them almost always come from Africa, almost always from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and serious questions should be raised about how that happens. How those supply chains actually work. Are these technologies, when it comes down to it, even dirtier than fossil fuels?

There's a provocation for you. And was there an ideological assertion in the early 2000s of

the economy becoming increasingly immaterial that actually reflected a profound alienation from production,

industry and manufacturing. Was that all, dare I say, an ideological assertion?

Hugely important conversation, not least because with the Iran War and the closure of the

Strait of Hormuz, people are increasingly turning to electric vehicles, solar

panels and lithium ion batteries. But like I say, where's all that stuff coming from? Who is

mining it? And what do their lives look like? All core to a new book, The Elements of Power

by Nicholas Nyarkos, a story of war technology. And in his words, the dirtiest supply chain on earth.

Nick, welcome to Downstream.

Thanks so much for having me.

We're here to talk about your fabulous book, The Elements of Power.

Let me get it up.

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