Hello and welcome to a very special edition of Downstream in Real Life here in the beating heart of South London. Yes, I hate being here as well.

Don't boo me.

Why are you booing me?

I'm right.

So every so often at Navarra Media,

something that we do is a supporters survey

where we find out what our audience really wants from us.

And every single time they say the same thing,

which is that they want more coverage of the climate crisis. The problem is, is that we can see

that that is exactly the content that they are not clicking on. There's a gap. There is a gap

between what people know is important and what they're willing to engage with.

And meanwhile, freak weather events have become just a part of normal life, it seems.

We scroll our social media feeds and we see apocalyptic scenes in Florida or the the Caribbean, or in Valencia.

The number of climate refugees already is staggering.

More than 32 million people displaced in 2022 alone,

and the prediction for 2050 is 1.2 billion.

So I'd like to see Nigel Farage stop Thumbot.

So how did we become so reconciled to catastrophic climate breakdown?

For today's live edition of Downstream, I'm joined by Andreas Mao,

bestselling author of Fossil Capital, How to Blow Up a Pipeline.

And his new book, co-authored with Professor of Political

Ecology, Wim Carton, is called Overshoot, and it's out now. And Jias, thank you so much.

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