The last 13 years have witnessed a series of shocks.

The financial crisis to 2008, the rise of China, the emergence of right wing populists taking

power, and most recently, the Covid pandemic, which marks the end of an era of both political

and economic orthodoxy.

But what precisely has changed, and what are the new rules and opportunities of the game,

as the previous status quo falls apart?

Join me to discuss that today is Paolo Jabaldo, author of the Great Recall out with

verse, so books, Paolo, welcome to Downstream, hi, I don't know, hi everyone, it's great

to have you down the line talking about these issues.

We're talking, I think it's important to say this, for four Labour Party Conference,

this will be coming out after Labour Party Conference.

So if anything is wrong, you know why, the discussions we're having this book in particular

I think is really salient to so many conversations we're going to hear from mainstream politics

over the next couple of years, so I'm really happy we could discuss it.

You start with the book saying that neoliberalism is dead, obviously we've heard that multiple

times before, one your opinion in the Great Recall is neoliberalism incapable of carrying

on as perform was the role of COVID-19 and that.

The key thing in the book is that neoliberalism is understood not just as an ideology, but

as bipartisan consensus that defined a political era, right, the era starting in the 80s, obviously

with touch and Reagan, but then progressively permeating also the centre left, obviously

Clinton, Blair, Shredder and so on and so forth.

And there is a tendency in history where you have these periods of 40, 50 years where a

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