I'm Naomi Klein and I am at Navarimedia right now having just done in a wonderful in-depth interview.

And this is why I love Navarimedia and I listen regularly and watch to find out what the hell is

going on in the UK. It is so critical to have independent media that we can trust that goes deep

on the issues and also lets people stay up on the day-to-day twists and turns. It's going to be

especially important for your next election. So I'm incredibly grateful that Navarimedia exists

and it exists because people support it. So make sure to support Navarimedia and we need

left institutions and that means that we have to support them when they're doing such great work

as Navarimedia is. Thanks.

Why do so many left-wing protest movements seem to end up with the exact opposite of what they

asked for? From the Arab Spring to the Free Fairs movement in Sao Paulo, people poured out in

their thousands onto the streets in order to transform society. And indeed the system around

them did change but often not in the way that they thought and more often than not for the worse.

So what are the weaknesses in these movements which led to their eventual failure and how could

they possibly be strengthened? I'm joined by Vincent Bevan's journalist and author to discuss

just that in his book, If We Burn. I was talking about this with James Butler recently,

we're both talking about how our politics have changed from when we first met each other

and how both of us feel about the state is really different from where we were 10 years ago.

And for both of us climate change was really central to it and I was like look I just don't know

if democracy is compatible with the pace of change which is needed in order to decarbonise

very quickly and sure I don't want to live in authoritarian China that doesn't seem

attractive to me but they built a lot of high speed rail. I think global democracy is compatible with

it right but that would be states like if you had an actual decision making mechanism by which all

...