I first spoke to Gary Stevenson here on downstream over a year ago. He came on for an interview in October 2022 before we had even finished recording.

In the room, I knew, our producers knew that it was going to be a fantastic interview

that it would do extraordinarily well. We'd hit the jackpot and that was because he

was saying some really insightful things in a really unique way.

And that's the word I use to describe Gary Stevenson.

He is a unique voice and he talks about the central issues of our time but he offers some pretty unique prescriptions.

And he has something for everyone, whether you're a young person struggling to get on the housing letter,

whether you're someone who doesn't quite understand why public services and high streets

get worse every year, but whether you're an older person, struggling to make ends meet, he can explain why things are getting worse and worse and worse.

And it has something to do with inequality.

As well as that we knew during the interview, he was working on a book.

This book, The Trading Game.

Don't worry. We won't be going over the same ground as before because frankly it is one of the best

books I've read in a number of years. It's a personal story about his time in trading, what he learned both personally and politically, and how it led him to some pretty remarkable conclusions.

There I say Gary Stevenson on inequality, the economy and the future of what our society

looks like is one of the most vital voices around.

So it's my pleasure again to be joined by Gary Stevenson.

Gary, welcome to Downstream.

Thanks, I've me back.

I think it's the first time we've had a return guest.

Okay.

And that's because the last time we chatted, it was a runaway success. I think it's got

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