Douglas Murray On Israel And Deportations
The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan
Andrew Sullivan
4.6 • 836 Ratings
🗓️ 4 April 2025
⏱️ 61 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Douglas is a writer and commentator. He’s an associate editor at The Spectator and a columnist for both the New York Post and The Sun, as well as a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. His books include The Madness of Crowds and The War on the West, which we discussed on the Dishcast three years ago. His new book is On Democracies and Death Cults: Israel and the Future of Civilization. We had a lively, sometimes contentious session — first on Trump, then on Israel’s tactics in Gaza.
This episode and a forthcoming one with Francis Collins were challenges. How to push back against someone who is your guest? I never wanted the Dishcast to be an interrogation, an Andrew Neil-style interview. But I also wanted it to air debate, so I try to play devil’s advocate when appropriate. I’m sure you’ll let me know how I’m doing after this one.
For two clips of our convo — on Palestinians “endlessly rejecting peace,” and debating the Khalil case — pop over to our YouTube page.
Other topics: the pros and cons of Trump 2.0 for Douglas; his time on the frontlines in Ukraine; the “horrifying” WH meeting with Zelensky; mineral reparations; North Korean conscripts; aggressing Greenland; Blame Canada; the Signal chat; Vance’s disdain for Europe; the Houthis; MAGA isolationists; targeting law firms; race and sex discrimination under Biden; Trump defunding the Ivies; anti-Semitism on campus; the Columbia protests and criminality; the Alien Enemies Act and the 1952 law; the Ozturk case; the horrors of 10/7; Hezbollah’s aborted invasion; the bombing of Gaza; human shields; dead children; hostages like Edan Alexander; Gazan protests against Hamas; the Israeli dentist who saved Sinwar’s life; 9/11 and religious extremism; the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza; Ben-Gurion; Zionism; pogroms in the wake of 1948; audio clips of Hitchens and Bill Burr; the view that only Jews can protect Jews; Rushdie; the hearts and minds of Gazans; John Spencer; just war theory; Trump’s Mar-a-Gaza; the West Bank settlements; ethnic cleansing; Smotrich; and the fate of a two-state solution after 10/7.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Claire Lehmann on the success of Quillette, Evan Wolfson on the history of marriage equality, Francis Collins on faith and science and Covid, Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee on Covid’s political fallout, and Paul Elie on his book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The Hi there. Welcome to another discast in the great and powerful era of Donald J. Trump. |
| 0:35.6 | We have some great guests coming up. Claire Lehman is coming on. |
| 0:40.5 | Evan Wilson is coming on to talk about the history of marriage equality. Francis Collins, |
| 0:46.4 | former head of the NIH, talking about faith, science, and yes, COVID and the lab leak theory. |
| 0:52.7 | The Great Barrington Declaration, all the controversies over. |
| 0:56.1 | COVID, we also have Stephen Macedo and Francis Lee, who've done this extraordinary new book on COVID, called In COVID's Wake, which raises a lot of questions that I will talk to them about and we'll have asked Mr. Collins about. And Paul Eli is coming on. |
| 1:13.9 | This book, The Last Supper, Arch, Faith, Sex and Controversy in the 1980s. He's a really fascinating Catholic writer and the book is a trip. |
| 1:23.2 | Takes me back. But today we have a special guest, just to prove that the dish does have |
| 1:30.7 | DEI, that we have reached out of our own comfort zone to find another gay Brit Tori |
| 1:39.0 | from the same college at Oxford that I went to. Douglas Murray is here. It seems we have one of |
| 1:45.4 | us every generation or so that comes along into America, but congratulations on being the latest. |
| 1:51.0 | Kind of you. I'll forgive you for... We're self-replicating virus. I know. It's all I am. |
| 1:57.7 | Douglas is a writer and commentator and he's an associate editor of the spectator a columnist for both the New York Post and the son, as well as a senior fellow of the Manhattan Institute. |
| 2:07.3 | His books include The Madness of Crowds and the War on the West, which we discussed on the discast three years ago. |
| 2:13.3 | Douglas is a second guest, very few of them around. |
| 2:18.8 | We're happy to have him. His new book, |
| 2:24.7 | which is a really challenging polemic called On Democracies and Death Cults, Israel, |
| 2:29.7 | and the future of civilization, a completely non-controversial topic, which we will have. No, |
| 2:34.5 | no trouble finding disagreements on or agreements. Douglas, welcome back. |
| 2:36.0 | It's very good to be back. |
| 2:37.2 | To the dishcast after surviving three hours of Licks Friedman. |
| 2:40.3 | I am surprised you're still walking. |
... |
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