Welcome to Sons of Patriarchy, a podcast devoted to understanding how men and women get caught up in the systems of patriarchy, Christian nationalism, and the far right.

For years, these have been on the French, but now they're mainstream.

They've come from places like Moscow, Idaho, and are influencing churches, families,

schools, marriages, and institutions across the country, and now in Washington, D.C.

Every Monday, I interview experts in the fields we focus on, whether they be authors,

reporters, other podcasters, academics, professors,

former members of these groups, and more.

Our companion podcast, they called her bitter, amplifies the stories of survivors and the advocates

who come around them, detailing how the ideas we talk about here impact real lives.

Because what was done in the dark will be dragged in the light.

Welcome to the next episode of Sun to Patriarchy, where our focus has always been and will always be on Doug Wilson and Christian nationalism and patriarchy and church abuse and everything else.

And we've expanded our focus to look at far right issues, mannisphere, tradwife, red pill,

everything that may not be the same but intersects with a lot of this.

But today we get to talk even more specifically focused on the CREC and Wilson and Christian

nationalism and

now Pete Hegstaff too and the by the time of this recording it was about about a month ago

the Pentagon preaching that Doug Wilson did at the behest invitation of Pete Heggseth

and we have Brian Kaler to talk about this so thanks so much for coming on the series to

talk about your your, your reporting,

and these shared interests that we both have in talking about this stuff. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be with you. Yeah, of course. So first and foremost,

coming from a Baptist minister, coming from a background, how does somebody like you get into, start writing on and, I mean, sort of making a name around covering Christian nationalist like stuff? It's not something. And I've told people before, I didn't grow up as little boy, nor go to college to or don't even think that this is going to happen. But how did you get into talking about? And I know there's not the only thing you talk about, but it's sort of becoming, it's a thing to talk about. You've written books on this. So how did you get into this in the first place? Yeah, that's a good question. And it's been obviously a journey. And yeah, when I was going off to college, you know, studying for Baptist ministry,

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