Domolition Derby

Inside Briefing with the Institute for Government

Institute for Government

News, Politics, Government

4.6 • 252 Ratings

🗓️ 27 May 2021

⏱️ 40 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What should we take from Dominic Cummings’ volcanic testimony before the Commons Heath, and Science and Technology committees, and his excoriation of Matt Hancock? Is Boris Johnson’s No.10 really so chaotic? And if the PM is “unfit for office”, how could Cummings work with him for so long? Special guest Sam Freedman, a former adviser at the Department for Education who has worked with Cummings, helps us sift the rubble from one of Westminster’s most cataclysmic days. “This wasn’t so much a machine-gunning as a bombardment with shells.” – Bronwen Maddox “When you’re spending your time in No.10 managing the PM away from big issues then you have a serious problem.” – Jill Rutter “Johnson behaves like a toddler. All he does is make stupid jokes and try to get attention for himself. You can see how he would be a hindrance in COBRA.” – Sam Freedman “Cummings gave a picture of an incredibly centralised government, very focused on whiteboards in Downing Street and not the outside world.” – Alex Thomas “I’ve never seen Cummings as having any intellectual respect for Johnson. He saw Boris as a vehicle for his ideas.” – Sam Freedman “When you have a Prime Minister who thinks rules are for mugs, you don’t get good government.” – Jill Rutter Presented by Bronwen Maddox with Jill Rutter, Alex Thomas and Sam Freedman. Audio production by Alex Rees. Inside Briefing is a Podmasters Production for the IfG. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello and welcome to Inside Briefing, the podcast from the Institute for Government.
0:14.2	I'm Bronwyn Maddox.
0:15.6	You don't have to be a super forecaster to forecast what we're going to be talking about today.
0:20.2	That's right, Dominic Cummings. We're going to be talking about today. That's right,
0:24.6	Dominic Cummings. We're going to pour over the nearly seven hours of questioning,
0:29.3	faced by the one-time chief advisor to the Prime Minister, in an extraordinary appearance before a joint parliamentary select committee. It wasn't so much a machine gunning as a bombardment
0:33.5	by shells, as Cummings went on the attack, and then some. We'll explore what he said about his targets,
0:39.2	particularly the Prime Minister and the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, as well as his heroes.
0:43.7	We'll look at what Cummings account showed us about Boris Johnson's government and about government
0:47.9	in general, and we'll take a look at what needs to happen next, in a public inquiry into the
0:52.8	government's handling of the pandemic and in
0:54.6	wider reform of government. Well, I'm joined by a pair of IFG experts who sat through the entire
0:59.6	Dom show and who both know a thing or two about what goes on in the heart of government.
1:03.6	IFG senior fellow, Jill Rutter, the veteran of number 10 and the Treasury is with us. Hi, Jill.
1:07.9	Hi, hi.
1:08.1	Hi, yeah. Great have you with us. Alex Thomas, who leads our civil
1:11.2	service work and used to work in the Cabinet Office, is with us too. Hi, Alex. Hi, Bromwin. Good to be here.
1:17.0	Great. And I'm delighted as well to be joined in the studio today by someone who knows Dominic
1:21.3	Cummings well, Sam Friedman, a former advisor at the Department for Education, an ex-CEO of the Education Partnerships Group. Hi, Sam. How are you?
1:29.7	Hi, good, thank you. Great. Did you watch the whole thing? I did. I didn't quite make all seven
1:34.7	hours, but I watched at least five, so I got the joist. Okay, on with the show. It was eagerly
1:40.7	anticipated and was no anti-climax. Cummings himself provided the Warmup Act with a seemingly never-ending tweet thread,
	...

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