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Hello and welcome back to the Americana show. My name is Freddie Gray. I am the deputy editor of the spectator and the US editor. And I'm pleased to tell you that this is the 10th year of the Americano podcast. And I think it's fair to say it's been a fairly fascinating time in American politics, life and culture.

And that's what we talk about every episode on this podcast.

So please keep listening and provide as much feedback as you like. Today I am delighted to be joined by Robert Bryce, who is author of the brilliant

substack, Robert Bryce's substack, and he writes about energy with great expertise and authority.

And we are, of course, going to be talking about Venezuela and energy.

Because Robert, there's a lot of sort of media back and forth about whether this is all about oil,

whether the strike on Venezuela is all about oil.

I think the answer is, of course it is at one level.

But that doesn't tell us the whole picture.

Is that a fair summary?

Well, yes, but let's be clear.

I mean, the U.S. did not do two wars in Iraq because Saddam was exporting dates, and we didn't strike Maduro and effectively kidnap Maduro out of Venezuela because Venezuela exports bananas.

It's about oil.

Oil is the base of power for a lot of countries, and it is the world's single most important commodity. So,

of course, this is about oil. Hello, duh. I mean, let's be real. And you can take my word for it.

You can listen to what Secretary Rubio said on Sunday on Meet the Press. He said, we don't need

...