that I will support the constitutional laws of the United States of America and will, by precept an example, promote respect for the flag.

When I say those words out loud and put my right hand up, does that make me believe those things?

When your behaviors and your words do not line up with your values, that creates this really

uncomfortable feeling.

You are going to seek to resolve that.

How do I get rid of this ick?

Welcome to Opening Arguments, the podcast that analyzes law in the news.

With me is Matt Cameron, immigration attorney.

And with me is Janessa Seymour, former scientist and current voting rights attorney.

And Janessa, I just have one question for you before we begin.

Are you now, or have you ever been a podcaster?

I, I, I, are you now or have you ever been a podcaster? I plead the fifth. Am I allowed to do that one on an oath?

I understand how you might want to disclose some associations, particularly seedy associations with this program.

Yes, today we're talking about loyalty oaths, which unfortunately has become kind of relevant

in the last 10 years or so, maybe, I don't know, more and more so in the last few months.

But this is, of course, in our continuing series on some of our favorite cases from the war in court era.

And I wanted to talk about one that's not very well known, even in

this genre of case is not very well known. It's called Begott v. Bullitt, which is a fantastic

name, just a really lot of fun to say. I've been enjoying it from 1964. So we're going to talk

a little bit about the history of loyal teeths in America and elsewhere, and how this sort of fit

into the McCarthy era, how the Supreme Court

handled the McCarthy era, both good and bad, and kind of where things stand today. So we've got

...