When you hear someone refer to the church, what comes to mind?

For many, that term comes with a lot of baggage.

Whether it's a fallen pastor, an unhealthy church culture, or compromised theology,

the problems that plague the evangelical church are often front and center in our minds and conversations.

And yet, when we look at Scripture, we see that Christ has good, even beautiful designs

for his imperfect bride.

In our interview today, I'm talking with Dustin Benj about why the Church, despite all her

faults, is worth fighting for. Dustin serves as an associate

professor of biblical spirituality and historical theology at the Southern Baptist Theological

Seminary and is the author of The Loveliest Place, the Beauty and Glory of the Church from Crosswhite.

Let's get started.

Well, Dustin, thank you so much for joining me today on the Crossway podcast.

Matt, what a pleasure it is to join you. Thank you for the kind invitation.

Yeah, so your new book is called The Loveliest Place, and that title refers to the church and the local church in particular.

And I wonder if you could just help us open up this conversation by responding to the

person who hears that title for the church, the loveliest place, and their immediately

response is, yeah, right.

Well, that's often the response, isn't it?

Someone who perhaps feels discouraged when they survey current evangelicalism, if you will, especially

and particularly those who are on social media probably too much.

We have a very skewed vision and definition of the church from that particular conversation.

But when we survey the current state of the church, it's really easy to become discouraged and disheartened,

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