My name is Jane Borden, and I'm an author and journalist. I was a religious studies major in college and thought I wanted to do that, be an academic. But I figured I ought to take a break from school first. So I moved to New York before applying to programs and then accidentally fell into the improv comedy scene

and eventually creative writing and I got a job at a magazine.

Anyway, all these, you know, decade or more later, my two pads kind of came back together

because I've written a book about religion and I tried to make it funny.

I'm Jane Marie and this is the dream.

So, you know, we talk about cults a lot here on the show.

In America at the moment, it seems like every other TV show, and podcast, is about a cult, high-control groups.

The media saturation makes it feel like this is a new phenomenon,

like something unique to right now.

But go back 10, 20 years, cults, 30 years, cults, cults, 40 years, wow, so many cults.

When you get to 80 years ago, those are like the fun to me.

I mean, people probably died, but they were like the fun kind of hippie cults.

100 years ago, those cults really looked like cults.

Like those were the ones where they were doing seances and stuff.

So it's been up and down and up and down.

Cults are popular.

Cultes are not popular.

Cult are not popular.

Since the beginning of this country. Today's guest posits that the reason we can't get away from this sort of thinking

is because it's what built America.

Thank you.

I wanted to talk to you. I invited you here because I love talking about the Puritans.

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