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Hello and welcome to the Spectator podcast. I'm Laura Prendergast and on this week's episode, we'll be looking at the Brexit divisions within their historical context.

We'll also be debating the future of driverless cars and finally we'll be learning about how to navigate the turbulent waters of modern dating.

First up, Christmas is a good time to count our blessings or at least put our problems into perspective.

And as Professor Robert Toombs says in the

Christmas issue of the spectator, Brexit has brought great strain on our communities, but we can and must

resist it. Robert joins me now, along with our political editor, James Forsyth. So, Robert, do you think

the country has ever been as divided as it is right now? Yes, quite often. And I think probably the 1970s

would be an obvious example. Going back further, it's much, much worse. We'd probably all think

of the 1930s. We'd probably think of the Suez Crisis. We might, those of us with an interest in

history, might think about the early 1900s. So I don't think our level of division now is unusual,

but it is rather surprising, it seems to me, because it's about so little.

James, why do you think people have suddenly started to be so divided over this issue of Brexit?

I think Robert hits the nail on the head when he said it's over so little. What I think is

interesting is that during the referendum

campaign, it was amazing how the pro-EU side kept saying, well, no one on our side is talking

about joining the single currency. No one on our side is talking about Schengen. We're against a European

super state too. So why then does this change in the nature of the relationship, which if you do not

wish to be part of the ultimate aim of the European project of ever closer union, is really not that dramatic?

Why has it triggered such dramatic feelings?

I think it is partly because people don't realise what they have until they're gone.

Partly, I think it's because some people made a tactical argument. So they did

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