This is the Tudors Dynasty and Beyond podcast, history with a twist.

And now your host, Rebecca Larson.

Hello and welcome back to the Tudors Dynasty podcast.

I'm your host, Rebecca Larson.

And today I get to welcome back to the show, one of my favoritest people.

And Dr. Emma, don't get jealous.

But Melanie really is my favorite person in the whole wide world. Melanie, Taylor, welcome.

Rebecca, this is fantastic. And to invite me on to your show, one of your anniversary shows,

well done for having eight years of podcasting. This is fantastic. I'm looking forward to our discussion.

Yes, I am so looking forward to our discussion today because it's kind of a controversial take,

but we love to also to talk about miniatures and portraits on this show. And today we are going to be talking about

one miniature that you've probably seen, but not really paid too close attention to. Melanie,

why don't you let everybody know what we're going to be talking about? Well, in the VNA in London,

there is a very, very curious portrait of a young man with red hair, curly red hair, holding a hand from a cloud.

And it has a motto which says, Atichi Amori's Ergo on one side of his head.

And on the other side there it says anodomini 1588.

Curious, that's the year the Armada launched and came up.

The motto being Latin has been translated by various academics for possibly meaning Greek love or Athenians because of love.

He's been identified or suggested identities are the Earl of Essex.

Leslie Hotson thought it might be Shakespeare, both of which have been disproved.

And the meaning behind the motto, let's just look at it,

obviously, by with, from or through the love of Atticus. Who is Atticus? Is it Greek love? Is it

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