The reason that women get off track today, both young and old, is they're looking at the world's measure.

They're not looking at how Christ looks at them.

And that is, his yoke is easy and his burden is light.

Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week for thoughtful

interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with Barbara Hughes.

Barbara is a popular teacher of women's groups and is the author of several books, including Disciplines of a Godly Woman from Crossway.

Last week, I spoke with Barbara's husband, Kent, on why discipline is so important in the life of a Christian man.

Today, Barbara and I discuss why discipline is also important for Christian women.

She highlights her own struggle to cultivate a

disciplined life over the years, reflects on important lessons she learned from key mentors like

Elizabeth Elliott, and offers encouragement for the listener who feels like she's struggling in her

spiritual walk right now. Let's get started. Well, Barbara, thank you so much for joining me today on the Crossway podcast.

Well, thank you for having me.

I'm very pleased to be able to talk to you.

So in the opening pages of your book, you talk about your struggle with being disciplined

and staying organized, both in the early days of your marriage to your husband, Kent, but even ongoing, even today.

And I think my sense is that many people, men and women alike, who might be listening right now, might resonate with those feelings of like, I'm just not so good at being

disciplined and organized. And maybe even when they come to conversations like we're going to

have about spiritual disciplines and discipline in the Christian life, they can immediately start to

feel a sense of guilt or even a little bit of dread when it comes to talking about this stuff,

because they feel like they just can't, they're not doing well with that. And so I wonder,

...