Think about how radical that notion is to come and say, close it all down.

This idea of caging people, warehousing people, for anything, including the fact that they're

different or disabled.

It's violent.

Shut it all down.

Think about how radical that is and think about the fact that it worked. Welcome to the death panel.

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death panel underscore today I'm really excited to have this guest back on the show she is in my

opinion one of the most important thinkers on the intersection of disability madness

incarceration and abolition liat ben-moseh is the author of Decarcerating Disability, Deinstitutionalization, and Prison Abolition,

which came out in 2020, in which she actually came on the show to discuss way back when.

But this book is so important, and so I asked her back to revisit Dearcerating disability in the context of, well,

I mean, everything that has happened in the last three years, including the pandemic,

and also the growing momentum of abolitionist thought in the United States. So, Leatt,

welcome back to the death panel. It's so nice to have you here. It's so, so great to be here. I'm very thankful that I get a second chance.

Well, Leah, thank you so much for coming back. Since we first had you on in 2020, it has honestly been one of the great honors of my life to get to work with you and Dean Spade on the Marta

Russell Symposium for a Law and Political Economy Project, and to get to know you better

personally in addition to thinking with your tremendous body of work.

And your 2020 book, Decarcerating Disability, is such an important text.

It's a must read if you even have, you know, any passing interest

in disability, incarceration, public policy, or the labor movement, frankly. So I know it's been

...