Hello, I'm City Journal editor Brian Anderson.

Thanks for joining us for the 10 Blocks podcast featuring urban policy and cultural commentary

with City Journal editors, contributors, and special guests.

Hello, everyone. I'm Stephen I, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, filling in for Brian on the 10 Blocks podcast brought to you by City Journal. I'm joined in the studio today by

Thomas Maine. Tom is a professor at the School of Public Affairs at Baruch College here in New York City.

Previously, Tom worked for a number of reputable organizations and publications such as the

Smith Richardson Foundation and even did a brief stint at the Manhattan Institute in the early

1980s.

Today we are here to discuss Tom's new book, Homelessness in New York City, policymaking

from Koch to DeBlasio. Tom, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Okay, so I want to start off with,

let me just frame the discussion this way. So it's, you know, sometimes you hear it alleged that

we're not doing enough to help the homeless in New York City, but the fact is that

city government in New York spends close to $2 billion on homeless services across several

city agencies. And one question your book is trying to answer is, how did this subpopulation,

which faces every possible disadvantage, managed to secure such a sizable chunk of the city budget to yourself.

What answer did you come to about that question?

Well, let's see.

You know, there was a school of thought, the pluralists, who said New York is made up of all sorts of different interest groups and they all get a little something.

And then in the radical 60s and the 70s, that approach came under criticism.

And the argument was, gee, there are some groups who don't get anything.

So I looked at the homeless and I said, well, if there's any group that's

not going to get anything, it kind of looks like it's going to be the homeless. But in fact,

...