"Did You Hear That, James?" We Survived MSG Surveillance... with Edward Snowden's Lawyer
Pablo Torre Finds Out
Pablo Torre
4.7 • 2.6K Ratings
🗓️ 8 May 2026
⏱️ 56 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The Knicks are surging. But politicians are condemning owner James Dolan and his tax breaks, after our investigation with WIRED. So Pablo tests the limits of facial recognition with his playoff ticket plug Ben Wizner, who just happens to be the Deputy Legal Director at the ACLU — and one of America's foremost experts on modern privacy. Which makes him uniquely (if begrudgingly) qualified to break down everything from spooked NBA journalists and a banned puppy, to Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein connections… to, yes, the Mount Rushmore of whistleblowers.
• Previously on PTFO: We Got Inside Knicks Surveillance — and MSG's Deep State Is Stranger Than You Think
• From WIRED: "The Shocking Secrets of Madison Square Garden’s Surveillance Machine"
• Watch "CITIZENFOUR" by Laura Poitras
• Read "Permanent Record" by Edward Snowden
• Read "Your Face Belongs to Us" by Kashmir Hill
• PTFO Vault: We Found the Secret Rap Album That the NBA's Best Executive Doesn't Want You to Hear
(Pablo Torre Finds Out is independently produced by Meadowlark Media and distributed by The Athletic. The views, research and reporting expressed in this episode are solely those of Pablo Torre Finds Out and do not reflect the work or editorial input of The Athletic or its journalists.)
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. |
| 0:06.7 | The person said to me, you know us. We're always watching. |
| 0:09.8 | Right after this ad. |
| 0:17.8 | I do like that any interview with you, Ben, must begin with you handing your phone to someone else. |
| 0:24.2 | As I just did, and as I once did, when your fellow Pulitzer Prize winner, Laura Poitris, |
| 0:31.8 | came to my office in January of 2013 and said, put your phone in your desk and lock it, we've got to go talk |
| 0:41.0 | somewhere else. I am not here to talk to you because you've represented Edward Snowden as his |
| 0:49.8 | attorney for years now. That's not why also I've been going to Nix games with you secretly. |
| 0:55.3 | Why's that? |
| 0:56.2 | Well, it's because you got me tickets. |
| 1:00.6 | I consider you a friend, Ben Wisner, and that is the ultimate reason. |
| 1:06.3 | You're a fellow dad, and I just wanted to get you off the couch. |
| 1:09.2 | And you care about the Nix. |
| 1:10.9 | I'm a lifelong fan. |
| 1:12.1 | This team is in the Eastern Conference semifinals. |
| 1:14.1 | You legitimately and almost surprisingly insanely care about the Knicks. |
| 1:21.1 | Are you talking about the attire that I wear to Knicks games, the Rashid Wallace's |
| 1:25.0 | Ball Don't Lie t-shirt that I wore when I went together? |
| 1:28.6 | It's not even so much the shirt as it was the standing up |
| 1:31.5 | during free throws and celebrating. |
| 1:35.9 | I mean, look, you're the guy who was defended famously, |
| 1:38.7 | the most important whistleblower, arguably in American history, |
... |
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