Did the Pentagon Threaten the Vatican?
Bulwark Takes
The Bulwark
4.7 • 1.2K Ratings
🗓️ 9 April 2026
⏱️ 18 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
JVL talks with Ed Condon of The Pillar about the escalating clash between the Vatican and the Trump administration after Pope Leo’s comments on the Iran war. They unpack the shocking report that a Vatican ambassador was confronted by the Pentagon, JD Vance’s awkward response, and why the American pope likely won’t be visiting the U.S. anytime soon.
Read more from JVL: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-department-of-war-vs-the-pope
Read more from Ed Condon: https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/when-will-leo-come-home
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello, everyone. I am JVL here with my old friend Ed Condon. We're going to do some Pope Leo talk, |
| 0:09.4 | some J.D. Vance talk, some Vatican talk, some Antipope talk. And Ed is from my favorite Catholic news |
| 0:18.6 | source, The Pillar. You can find them on substack at the pillarcatholic.com. |
| 0:24.6 | Is that right, Ed? |
| 0:25.2 | That is right. |
| 0:26.5 | Thepillarcatholic.com. |
| 0:28.0 | I'm a founding member over there. |
| 0:30.2 | God, I love the Pillar so much. |
| 0:32.4 | So, Ed, we've had some things which are normal and some things which are not normal. |
| 0:37.7 | The normal stuff is there is a war and the Pope is against it. |
| 0:41.6 | This is a thing which is true basically in all times and all places with all popes. |
| 0:46.4 | Correct? |
| 0:47.3 | Certainly the last couple of centuries. |
| 0:49.1 | Yeah. |
| 0:49.5 | Yeah. |
| 0:49.9 | Okay. |
| 0:50.0 | So, you know, when there is a war, regardless of what we think about the war in America, |
| 0:55.8 | the Pope is against it. This Pope, an American Pope, is against the war in Iran. Pope Leo has |
| 1:00.4 | been escalating his condemnations and he got pretty specific after Donald Trump threatened genocide |
| 1:08.3 | and said American Catholics should call their, |
| 1:12.8 | their representatives, elected representatives and say we don't want genocide. |
| 1:16.7 | That's pretty political for a Pope, I think, right? |
... |
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