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This is Recode Media with Peter Kafka.

That's me. It's powered by digital media, a real company with a funny name.

I'm here with Stephen Dovner.

I was just asking about digital media.

I think I've explained it to him.

They're the people who make and distribute this podcast, so you can hear it for free. I knew that. I was curious about, you know, in this ecosystem of what I've started to think is peak podcast. We're already in peak podcast? Oh, man. It's either peak or bubble. Here's this traditional startup entrepreneur answer to any of these questions is, you know, it's early innings.

Yeah, like most typical answers, I find them probably mostly garbage. I don't know. But, you know, it's, you know, look, I'm the last person in the world to predict the future. In fact, I'm a devout advocate of not predicting much because it's hard. But it's a really interesting time to be making podcasts. I'll say that as someone who's kind of, honestly, I have kind of converted. I'm no longer at the moment, a writer of books for the first time in 15 years. I am not actively in the middle of writing. You're all in on audio. Well, I wouldn't say I'm all in at the moment, pretty close to it. But yeah. And it's a lot of, I'm having a blast. If someone's listening

to this podcast, All in on audio. Well, I wouldn't say I'm all in at the moment, pretty close to it. But yeah.

And it's a lot of, I'm having a blast.

If someone's listening to this podcast and they don't know who Stephen Dubner is, we should introduce Stephen Dubner. Sure. Stephen Dubner is one of the co-founders of the Freakonomics. Can I call you an empire? You can. Deal. I would disagree. but yeah sure whatever you want you want. Started as a book. Yeah.

There's now multiple books.

Yeah.

Podcasts.

Yeah. Podcasts. Well, there's two podcasts. Well, the other one has nothing to do with Freakonomics. Actually, I've started, actually I've had four, I'm on my fourth podcast now. Okay. We'll go through that. there's a movie which you can watch for free on Netflix.

Again, we kind of had our name on it.

We didn't make it. Has your name on it?

You're in it.

I'm going to count it in it.

I'm going to count it in. We'll go through that. There's a, there's a movie, which you can watch for free on Netflix. Again, we, we kind of, that had our name on it.

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