The Catholic tradition considers the Apostle Peter to be the first Pope and the founder of the church in Rome,

but what does the historical record say?

Today, Dr. Bart Ehrman joins me to discuss where this idea came from, whether Peter was ever in Rome,

and what historians know about the founding of early churches.

Welcome to misquoting Jesus with Bart Ehrman. The only show, where a six-time New York Times best-selling author and world-renowned Bible

scholar, uncovers the many fascinating, little-known facts about the New Testament, the historical

Jesus, and the rise of Christianity.

I'm your host, Megan Lewis.

Let's begin.

Before we get started today, a quick heads up that Bart has recently announced his next big cruise,

and he is really excited about this one.

It's a two-week expedition in June 2026 from Bergen, Norway,

all the way up to Svalbard, yes, the polar bear capital of the world. He's been wanting to do

this route forever and what he's really looking forward to is time with all of you. Long conversations

over great meals, exploring the breathtaking coastline and majestic fjords together,

and sharing brand new material about who chose the four Gospels. This is the topic of Bart's

new book, and you'll be the first to hear what he's thinking about at all. If you're interested

in joining Bart on the cruise, there's a special $300 discount if you book by December 15th. Just head to

barturman.com forward slash Norway for all the details. Welcome back everybody to misquoting

Jesus, where today we're talking about whether or not the Apostle Peter founded the church in

Rome. We've also got listeners questions at the end where I'll be asking Bart

his thoughts on exorcism and whether the New Testament can be considered an early work of fantasy

...