NPR.

This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darren Woods.

And I'm Sasha Fiver.

Sasha, thank you so much for joining us from NPR's Investigations Desk.

Thank you, having me on the show.

You have done a lot of reporting for NPR on the Paycheck Protection Program or PPP.

Yes, I have and Darien you obviously remember that at the start of the pandemic there was this huge

worry that we were going to see just a gigantic increase in unemployment.

So this federal program was created.

The idea was it was going to prevent that unemployment from happening by giving

potentially forgivable loans to small businesses.

The idea was that it would save jobs,

and it was a lifesaver for many people.

Right, but it's also widely considered a massive government giveaway.

Billions of dollars went to companies that didn't even exist or didn't need it.

Yes, and these loans were very easy to get.

And by the way, the federal government is unapologetic about that.

It says it had to gush money out there as fast as possible to prevent

possible economic catastrophe and the amount of money it gushed almost 800 billion

dollars. jaw dropping and the government knows that a lot of that money went to fraudsters and to companies that thrived during COVID.

So you might assume that it was very strict when deciding which loans to forgive?

Yes, you would assume that, but that is not what happened.

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