Are you able to give any ballpark for previous numbers?

Let's just say ridiculous. I think that's a good ballpark, right? I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. On the road, let's try. When you are introducing yourselves, what do you even say? Because you've done so many different things that I don't even know, like, what you take credit for most, you like hang your hat on?

Well, it all depends on the audience. If I'm talking to a bunch of car nerds, I talk about winning Lamont. If I talk to a bunch of programmers, it's all about Ruby and Rails. And if it's a bunch of entrepreneurs, it's usually about building Basecamp and 37 signals. So, have you ever said Basecamp's revenue?

No, we've never disclosed to full revenues nor full profits.

I think we've said tens of millions or something. I don't even know.

That's one of the great privileges of being a private company. It certainly served as well for many, many years when we had the entire project

management space in SaaS to ourselves. And we were laughing all the way to the bank because

clearly someone else must have realized this was a highly profitable, not even niche, but category

of software. And it just took a decade until anyone else woke up to the idea that this

could be a good business, and then we had competition.

So very much enjoyed the privilege of being a U.S. private company and not having to disclose

that goddamn thing.

Sam, have you ever been to – so if you go to 37 Signal's website, Sam, have you ever clicked at the bottom? There's this little tab that just says

1999. Have you ever seen this? No, I'm going to it now. What's insane? It's amazing. So,

so in general, I feel like you guys have done an amazing job of like planting your flag in the

ground. Like, yeah, this is what we believe. And rework was a fantastic book. Your website right now is

basically kind of like rework. It's just a 30 chapters of shit we believe rather than trying to sell

you on our software. Like, let me tell you our philosophy as founders and entrepreneurs. But if you

click 1999, Sam, what do you see?

I see a website, a page that looks sort of like it's from the year 1999, and it's all white,

and it says 37 signals manifesto, and it's a 37 chapter book in plain text.

And there's chapters like chapter 24, my cousin's buddy, and it says, my cousin's buddy is a web

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