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This archival episode of Design Matters

was recorded in November of 2016.

This is design matters with Debbie Millman from Design Observer.com.

For 11 years now, Debbie Millman has been talking with designers and other creative types about what they do,

how they got to be who they are and what they're thinking about.

On this podcast, Debbie Millman talks with Eileen Miles, about poetry, fame, and politics.

We're going to find out what resistance means now.

Never in my adult life have I had this kind of challenge.

Here's Debbie Milman. I am always hungry and wanting to have sex. This is a fact. That's the opening of Eileen Miles's poem, peanut butter. If you haven't read

Eileen Miles's writing, please start. It's blunt, it's open, it's funny, it's moving moving and there's a lot of it.

More than 20 books of it in fact.

She started off in the East Village poetry scene in the 1970s and for decades she's been famous in the poetry world.

Very recently she vaulted to a new level of renown when the Amazon show

...