Hi, Gary Stearman coming to you from the Prophecy Watchers studio. In studio with me today is Derek

Gilbert and it's always great to have Derek back. It's an honor to be here, Gary. We've had the

opportunity to do some long, long discussions, which by the way will appear on some future programs.

Interesting stuff. We've been talking about

the new book that you've written, Veneration, along with your wife, Sharon. Sharon Gilbert,

Derek Gilbert, have come up with this book called Veneration. And it's a book that has a message

that I think should be heard everywhere.

People need to know what this book says.

Well, thank you.

One of the things we wanted to do was do a deep dive into the theology behind the Refi'am.

Where did they come from?

Who worship them?

And to try to do it in a way that was not duplicating the work of, well, you were very early on this subject years ago before even some of the texts that we had access to from the pagan neighbors of ancient Israel had been translated by scholars.

But men like Tom Horn, L.A. Marzuli, Steve Quail, who are out there looking for the physical remains of the giants of old

at personal expense and at risk of their own reputations. They catch a lot of flack both from

non-Christians and skeptics but also from Christians too who believe that this is a waste of time.

But we show, I think, in veneration that the worship of these entities among the pagan neighbors of ancient

Israel but even among the Israelites themselves got them into trouble over and over again.

These were the mighty men who were of old, the kings, the men of renown, the neighbors

around ancient Israel believed that they were their ancestral kings who needed to be

venerated and worshipped. We show in the book that even some of the kings of Israel, Hasakiah's

son and grandson, Manasseh and Amon, fell into this practice. The Israelites were condemned for it,

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