Welcome to another episode of Mormon Discussion Podcast. I'm your host Bill Real.

I'm grateful for the chance to be with you today. I have with me, my guest, Clark Abut,

and Clark has been behind the scenes talking to me for some time. He was, I believe, at one time, a caller on Mormonism live and suggested that we go into this topic.

And so for some time, we've sort of had this back and forth with, and I don't know a better way to say it, because we're going to need to use this phrase multiple times.

I know the other side is sort of offended by it, but I don't mean it that way. But the polygamy deniers, folks who do not

believe that Joseph Smith originated polygamy, but instead think that it was a carefully crafted,

and I don't mean conspiracy theory, like in terms of it being false only that conspiracy theory

meaning that lots of people had to be working behind the scenes to create the look that this was

Joseph Smith's polygamy when in reality this was Brigham Young and those around him who made

it essentially appear as if Joseph Smith was the

originator of polygamy. And so, Clark, I'm grateful to have you on today. We've got a PowerPoint

presentation that we're going to go through. I anticipate that this will be multiple hours

that will take probably more than one sit down. And folks, what I'm,

what my hope is to do is to in, uh, I think like a credible fashion, allow the other side to

lay out the entirety of their argument for the data they see is pointing to Joseph Smith,

not originating polygamy. Then it's my hope, and we'll

see how this goes, but it's my hope that we can then take this video footage and we will have

moments in this show where we hit pause and we will allow Dan Vogel to be able to sit with

these data points and explain why these data points are not convincing.

Now, I anticipate that as we go through this PowerPoint, it will be interesting.

I've gone through chunks of this and there are parts where I've wondered like, hey, how did that happen? And yes, I think it does

speak to something, some sort of contradiction in the historical narrative. And so what we're going to

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