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Greetings, dear listeners. This is Jonah Goldberg, host of The Remnant Podcast. Brought to you

by The Dispatch and Dispatch Media. I am very excited about today's guest in part because

I think the last two times he was on here, David French, talked to him instead of me and

that made me jealous. So I've decided to have Jonathan Rauch, who's a senior fellow at the

Hated Brookings Institution. One day we will take care of that place, like G Gordon

Litty wanted to. Everything, Tang Needs an Episat.

It's just I grew up at AEI. Brookings was my, you know, my carthage must be destroyed. Brookings

Dillenda S kind of, you know, softball rivalry, the whole thing. Yeah, just so you know the

epithet we use for AEI is the would be AEI. That's not bad. We can get into that. And we

can maybe come up with some modifiers for the Heritage Foundation too. But I had the

Tiffany yesterday because I was working to get my LA Times column done early and I was writing

about primaries. And as many listeners know, I hate primaries. And I think they're one

of the chief reasons why our parties are dysfunctional and weak. And I said as much on Twitter the

other day and all these people started attacking me. Why do you hate democracy? And so in the

great spirit was the most relevant political scientist on this topic anyway of E.E. Schatz

Niter, I'm going to expand the scope of conflict and bring in an intellectual ally to help

me talk through some of these issues. And that's Jonathan Roush and Jonathan wrote a great

piece for the Atlantic a while back on why primaries are screwing everything up. And Jonathan

thank you for, and we're going to talk about other stuff too. But I just, that was, that

was the, the eureka moment that made me say I had to have you back on. So thank you

for coming. Well, happy to be here. I should say two things. The first is that Atlantic

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