Democracy in Chains (with Nancy MacLean)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.8 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 29 April 2025

⏱️ 38 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

This week, we’re revisiting a critical conversation we had back in 2020 with author and historian Nancy MacLean, in which she exposes how today’s threats to democracy were decades in the making. Based on her groundbreaking book Democracy in Chains, MacLean traces how Nobel Prize-winning economist James Buchanan worked with billionaire donors to rig the rules of government to expand corporate power and protect extreme wealth. From public choice theory to voter suppression, this episode reveals the coordinated strategy to undermine democracy—and explains why understanding it is essential to fighting back. Nancy MacLean is an award-winning historian and the William H. Chafe Distinguished Professor of History and Public Policy at Duke University. Her book, Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America was a National Book Award finalist and winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize. ⁠This episode originally aired on July 21, 2020⁠. Social Media: ⁠@nancymaclean.bsky.social⁠ ⁠@NancyMacLean5⁠ Further reading: ⁠Democracy in Chains⁠ Website: ⁠http://pitchforkeconomics.com⁠ Instagram: ⁠@pitchforkeconomics⁠ Threads: ⁠pitchforkeconomics⁠ Bluesky: ⁠@pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social⁠ Twitter: ⁠@PitchforkEcon⁠, ⁠@NickHanauer⁠, ⁠@civicaction⁠ YouTube: ⁠@pitchforkeconomics⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Pitchfork Economics⁠ Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, pitchfork listeners, Goldie here. Back in July of 2020, we spoke with historian Nancy McLean
0:07.9	about the radical rights decades-long effort to dismantle American democracy. And well, here we are
0:16.1	a few months into the second Trump regime, and it looks like they might have won. And so we thought that now
0:22.3	might be a good time to re-air our conversation with McLean about the rise of the radical right,
0:28.3	how they managed to weaponize their ideology, and the lessons to learn from successful,
0:33.9	progressive counter movements of the past. We hope you enjoy the episode, or at least don't get too angry or depressed.
0:43.9	The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result
0:50.3	of decades of bad economic theory.
0:53.3	The last five decades of trickle-down economics haven't
0:56.5	worked. But what's the alternative? Middle-out economics is the answer. Because the middle-class
1:02.1	is the source of growth, not its consequence. That's right.
1:18.7	This is Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.
1:20.2	Welcome to the show.
1:29.7	I'm Nick Hanauer, founder of Civic Ventures.
1:34.3	I'm David Goldstein, Senior Fellow at Civic Ventures.
1:43.5	So, Goldie, we're going to talk today to Nancy McLean who wrote one of your favorite books? Well, I want to qualify.
1:45.3	It's a great book, Democracy and Chains, The Deep History of the Radical Rights, Stealth
1:51.5	Plan for America.
1:52.8	Great book.
1:53.7	Everybody should read it.
1:55.1	I hated it.
1:56.6	I mean, it is, it just makes me so mad.
	...

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