Hey, guys, we are here with an interesting format for us.

This is Bonnie and Karen from Deconversion Therapy.

And we're going to be talking to

Clint Haycock from the Mind Shift podcast and kind of doing a group broadcast, if you will.

He's got a great podcast about ex-angelicals and deconverting and a whole bunch of great interviews on his podcast that are

phenomenal. So this is the first of the experiments. Say something, guys, because no, we're not

we're going to leave you hanging. I just enjoy listening to you talk. It sounded so good.

Just keep going.

This is Karen, and I just want to say that Clint is intelligent and thoughtful and studious.

So we're going to fake intelligence.

And, you know, again, I have the hand on the edit button. So if we come out looking intelligent at all, it's a trick of mirrors.

Yeah, smoking mirrors.

Well, that's, yeah, I was going to say that's, that's just the way I approach my podcast, you know, just, I used to be a Bible college teacher. I was into academics

big time. So I just, that's just my orientation, I guess, is to kind of approach these topics

from a little bit maybe of an academic point of view. I don't know. But who knows? But I love to

have a good laugh too. So I love your show as well because obviously those stories that you talk about, they resonate so much with my time in evangelicalism too. So I'm really looking forward to this

conversation. Yeah. We've got that ying yang, you know, for anyone who needs it because I know a lot of

our followers, some of the things that they talk about with their struggles

are, you know, still trying to get rid of guilt or believing hell is real and being fearful.

And that's when some of the academic stuff can come in and be really helpful.

And we usually point them away.

Somewhere else. Go look for some good stuff. Go look

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